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	<title>Comments on: Me Tarzan. You Jane.</title>
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		<title>By: Mayor of Kentonville.com</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayor of Kentonville.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 05:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-143</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed this post, the comment section provided interesting commentary instead of the usual progression. It was refreshing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed this post, the comment section provided interesting commentary instead of the usual progression. It was refreshing.</p>
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		<title>By: custom oil painting</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>custom oil painting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-142</guid>
		<description>The trend of having more men working in companies like Yahoo than women is due to several reasons.  One reason is that men are more technical by nature than women.  Next reason is that the world population really shows us a 1:10 ratio of men to women.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In our company, for instance, the men are most the technical personnel and the women are the SEOs.  Most men are perhaps expected to do the harder tasks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trend of having more men working in companies like Yahoo than women is due to several reasons.  One reason is that men are more technical by nature than women.  Next reason is that the world population really shows us a 1:10 ratio of men to women.  </p>
<p>In our company, for instance, the men are most the technical personnel and the women are the SEOs.  Most men are perhaps expected to do the harder tasks.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura James</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-141</guid>
		<description>Tech entrepreneurism is dominated by alpha males, who tend to have a very clubby culture. It may not be the traditional old boys club, and in theory it may be totally open to women, but it&#039;s there. To be involved, you have to do the long hours plus the evening networking events, and as a rule it&#039;s still the case that women have less support in the home, and also prioritise home/family/friends over working 24/7. Most of the men I meet in the high tech startup scene are either young (often single) and love doing tech stuff - this is their social life - or are older, with a supportive wife/girlfriend, and often (if they&#039;ve been successful) other paid help (PAs, cleaners, etc). Whereas women tend to view being home with the kids, rather than the nanny being home with them, as important; or they have caring responsibilities for older relatives (i know of hardly any men who are caring for elders); or they simply want a work-life balance, where the life part isn&#039;t technology or business. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course, my experience is a very small sample set, and it&#039;s very easy to generalise incorrectly in this stuff. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;ve quite a few years experience as a rare female in computing research and now high tech startups, though, and I&#039;ve watched other women leave the field or move into less hardcore roles: sometimes because of children, but often not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tech entrepreneurism is dominated by alpha males, who tend to have a very clubby culture. It may not be the traditional old boys club, and in theory it may be totally open to women, but it&#8217;s there. To be involved, you have to do the long hours plus the evening networking events, and as a rule it&#8217;s still the case that women have less support in the home, and also prioritise home/family/friends over working 24/7. Most of the men I meet in the high tech startup scene are either young (often single) and love doing tech stuff &#8211; this is their social life &#8211; or are older, with a supportive wife/girlfriend, and often (if they&#8217;ve been successful) other paid help (PAs, cleaners, etc). Whereas women tend to view being home with the kids, rather than the nanny being home with them, as important; or they have caring responsibilities for older relatives (i know of hardly any men who are caring for elders); or they simply want a work-life balance, where the life part isn&#8217;t technology or business. </p>
<p>Of course, my experience is a very small sample set, and it&#8217;s very easy to generalise incorrectly in this stuff. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve quite a few years experience as a rare female in computing research and now high tech startups, though, and I&#8217;ve watched other women leave the field or move into less hardcore roles: sometimes because of children, but often not.</p>
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		<title>By: Lunch break</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunch break</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-140</guid>
		<description>Quick post – I’m one of those cheap chicks (??!).  Six months into the UK ad industry in London. Can only afford to do it as family have outrageously nice place in town (I know privileged me).  Getting out to do a PG law course in Sept as all here are right (especially Maz who started this off) as my company eats up women like me who do the donkey work while the guys do the interesting stuff.  From the others here there is on way up except for one who is living with one of the partners (only a small company) and seems to have a nice lifestyle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick post – I’m one of those cheap chicks (??!).  Six months into the UK ad industry in London. Can only afford to do it as family have outrageously nice place in town (I know privileged me).  Getting out to do a PG law course in Sept as all here are right (especially Maz who started this off) as my company eats up women like me who do the donkey work while the guys do the interesting stuff.  From the others here there is on way up except for one who is living with one of the partners (only a small company) and seems to have a nice lifestyle.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-139</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of what has been posted here.  Not so much a case of clear discrimination but more subtle e.g. evening sessions at pubs for the boys.  So as Maz says where are the women entrepreneurs in this area?  If they are not about why?  Is this about networks (which this blog may help to fix???) – are women accidentally or otherwise lack access to the networks of people pushing along the Web agenda? As others have pointed out there are lots of women working in mundane jobs but few elsewhere (and not all run off to have babies and even if they do many women in other areas of work manage to put both activities together e.g. doctors, psychologists etc).  The personal is political as they said in the 1970s so I’m anonymous (oh and typing this on my government office PC) as I work in IT within Whitehall. My background was education but done this for over en years. Bright women or anyone come to that would - mostly - find such government Depts a non-sexist place to be but few women apply for jobs compared to men.  So is that women lack ambition or otherwise disadvantage themselves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what has been posted here.  Not so much a case of clear discrimination but more subtle e.g. evening sessions at pubs for the boys.  So as Maz says where are the women entrepreneurs in this area?  If they are not about why?  Is this about networks (which this blog may help to fix???) – are women accidentally or otherwise lack access to the networks of people pushing along the Web agenda? As others have pointed out there are lots of women working in mundane jobs but few elsewhere (and not all run off to have babies and even if they do many women in other areas of work manage to put both activities together e.g. doctors, psychologists etc).  The personal is political as they said in the 1970s so I’m anonymous (oh and typing this on my government office PC) as I work in IT within Whitehall. My background was education but done this for over en years. Bright women or anyone come to that would &#8211; mostly &#8211; find such government Depts a non-sexist place to be but few women apply for jobs compared to men.  So is that women lack ambition or otherwise disadvantage themselves?</p>
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		<title>By: Maz Hardey</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Maz Hardey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Thanks Weesz for your comments! &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I completely agree with you that female entrepeneurship is seemingly lacking.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m going to see if I can address some more of these issues in a forthcoming post so please get in touch with any ideas, observations etc I shall incorporate these and want to pass them on to a wider media audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Weesz for your comments! </p>
<p>I completely agree with you that female entrepeneurship is seemingly lacking.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to see if I can address some more of these issues in a forthcoming post so please get in touch with any ideas, observations etc I shall incorporate these and want to pass them on to a wider media audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Maz Hardey</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Maz Hardey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Kaisa, &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;it appears that you have had similar experiences to my own in the world of media &#039;saviness&#039;.  what seems to go unnoticed under the radar is the number of incidence, no srub that - what goes unnoticed is the fact that there still ARE incidence where things are less than equal between the sexes. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My chief concern is that feminism is either considered &#039;dead&#039;, not necessary, or a tag that is intended to be disparaging in its conotations, perhaps Anon was right to point out the potential to be labelled as a &#039;lez&#039; intended as a derogatory  term.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I keep coming back to where &#039;we&#039; go from here though.  But it is encouraging to see that comments have come from men in the industry who not only recognise that there is a problem, but also lend support for equal measures.  No special favours wanted, just an equal playing field for one and all to play in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaisa, </p>
<p>it appears that you have had similar experiences to my own in the world of media &#8216;saviness&#8217;.  what seems to go unnoticed under the radar is the number of incidence, no srub that &#8211; what goes unnoticed is the fact that there still ARE incidence where things are less than equal between the sexes. </p>
<p>My chief concern is that feminism is either considered &#8216;dead&#8217;, not necessary, or a tag that is intended to be disparaging in its conotations, perhaps Anon was right to point out the potential to be labelled as a &#8216;lez&#8217; intended as a derogatory  term.  </p>
<p>I keep coming back to where &#8216;we&#8217; go from here though.  But it is encouraging to see that comments have come from men in the industry who not only recognise that there is a problem, but also lend support for equal measures.  No special favours wanted, just an equal playing field for one and all to play in.</p>
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		<title>By: Weefz</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Weefz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>Oh, I&#039;m definitely not saying that there&#039;s no discrimination - just that the most obvious ones don&#039;t apply to the early stages of entrepeneurship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I&#8217;m definitely not saying that there&#8217;s no discrimination &#8211; just that the most obvious ones don&#8217;t apply to the early stages of entrepeneurship.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaisa</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-135</guid>
		<description>To follow up on myself: According to this article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20030873/ , you might negotiate for higher salary, but you should shut up about it to your coworkers if you&#039;re a women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To follow up on myself: According to this article: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20030873/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20030873/</a> , you might negotiate for higher salary, but you should shut up about it to your coworkers if you&#8217;re a women.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaisa</title>
		<link>http://girlygeekdom.com/news/research/me-tarzan-you-jane#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://girlgeekdinners.com/girlygeekdom/2007/07/27/me-tarzan-you-jane/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a woman in IT, and I&#039;ve been thinking about other women in IT, or the work force in general.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As long as women are willing to work without getting paid, off course profit seekers are going to hire them. As long as there&#039;s a steady flow of girls doing menial jobs to get a foot in the media business, why raise salaries? Unfortunately, you as a woman can&#039;t make other women decide that they don&#039;t want to be exploited, so you&#039;ll have to find somewhere else to work, where the managers treat you right. Kind of a pity, but that&#039;s how life can be. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And as long as women don&#039;t DEMAND the same salary as the males in their office, if they feel treated unfairly, why should they be offered more? Some women need to feel less victimized and protest more. Ask for a raise. I don&#039;t know how it is in the UK, but here in Norway it&#039;s such a high demand on smart people, that you&#039;d get away with it. But a lot of women don&#039;t stand up for themselves, they expect things to be fixed by someone else. I used to be like that too, untill I decided that I was worth a lot more than what I was being payed, went to my boss and asked. I got a raise for £3000, while the guys at my office didn&#039;t get any. It felt good. I&#039;ve done it a few times more, and have gotten raises both those times as well. The managers have seen that there&#039;s been an &quot;imbalance&quot;, and have agreed to give me more money. But off course they would have shut up completely if I hadn&#039;t asked for it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But exploitation and salaries are general issues, not specific for Web 2.0. Or IT, even. What I&#039;ve found during my 7 years in the industry, is that women for some reason hardly ever get involved in anything work related OUTSIDE work. I&#039;ve been attending user group meetings for the last 3-4 years. If there are 4 women in a group of 80, it would be a record. And these things are free! But they&#039;re being held in the evenings, that might be it. On the other hand, Microsoft has several events during a year, where there&#039;s lots of interesting content, it&#039;s free and you get some quite decent food as well. There, you migh have 10 women and 150 men. And I&#039;m not entirely convinced the number of women would rise even if there were several female speakers... &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;OK, so what has this rant to do with Web 2.0? It might explain why no women can be found, and if you find a few, that few other women are very enthusiastic about attending the events. I don&#039;t think it has anything to do with Web 2.0, though. Just that a lot of women spread their attention so thinly that what they do for work has a lower priority than friends, family, house, physical training or other &quot;usefull&quot; and &quot;worthwhile&quot; things. If someone invented some technology that was both practical and esthetically pleasing, you might get the big masses of women in IT interested. Web 2.0 don&#039;t come across as being quite that. And then you have a catch 22, because few women will bother to work out what this revolutionary technology could be, so it will probably never show up.&lt;br/&gt;(Yeah, I&#039;m a pessimist. The link in my name is to an article I wrote in 2004, called &quot;Why are there still so few women in IT?&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a woman in IT, and I&#8217;ve been thinking about other women in IT, or the work force in general.</p>
<p>As long as women are willing to work without getting paid, off course profit seekers are going to hire them. As long as there&#8217;s a steady flow of girls doing menial jobs to get a foot in the media business, why raise salaries? Unfortunately, you as a woman can&#8217;t make other women decide that they don&#8217;t want to be exploited, so you&#8217;ll have to find somewhere else to work, where the managers treat you right. Kind of a pity, but that&#8217;s how life can be. </p>
<p>And as long as women don&#8217;t DEMAND the same salary as the males in their office, if they feel treated unfairly, why should they be offered more? Some women need to feel less victimized and protest more. Ask for a raise. I don&#8217;t know how it is in the UK, but here in Norway it&#8217;s such a high demand on smart people, that you&#8217;d get away with it. But a lot of women don&#8217;t stand up for themselves, they expect things to be fixed by someone else. I used to be like that too, untill I decided that I was worth a lot more than what I was being payed, went to my boss and asked. I got a raise for £3000, while the guys at my office didn&#8217;t get any. It felt good. I&#8217;ve done it a few times more, and have gotten raises both those times as well. The managers have seen that there&#8217;s been an &#8220;imbalance&#8221;, and have agreed to give me more money. But off course they would have shut up completely if I hadn&#8217;t asked for it.</p>
<p>But exploitation and salaries are general issues, not specific for Web 2.0. Or IT, even. What I&#8217;ve found during my 7 years in the industry, is that women for some reason hardly ever get involved in anything work related OUTSIDE work. I&#8217;ve been attending user group meetings for the last 3-4 years. If there are 4 women in a group of 80, it would be a record. And these things are free! But they&#8217;re being held in the evenings, that might be it. On the other hand, Microsoft has several events during a year, where there&#8217;s lots of interesting content, it&#8217;s free and you get some quite decent food as well. There, you migh have 10 women and 150 men. And I&#8217;m not entirely convinced the number of women would rise even if there were several female speakers&#8230; </p>
<p>OK, so what has this rant to do with Web 2.0? It might explain why no women can be found, and if you find a few, that few other women are very enthusiastic about attending the events. I don&#8217;t think it has anything to do with Web 2.0, though. Just that a lot of women spread their attention so thinly that what they do for work has a lower priority than friends, family, house, physical training or other &#8220;usefull&#8221; and &#8220;worthwhile&#8221; things. If someone invented some technology that was both practical and esthetically pleasing, you might get the big masses of women in IT interested. Web 2.0 don&#8217;t come across as being quite that. And then you have a catch 22, because few women will bother to work out what this revolutionary technology could be, so it will probably never show up.<br />(Yeah, I&#8217;m a pessimist. The link in my name is to an article I wrote in 2004, called &#8220;Why are there still so few women in IT?&#8221;)</p>
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